After weeks of smack talk and insults, the Kurgan and I squared off in a debate. Within 20 minutes the debate was over as soon as he said “Ludwig Denzinger.” The unbridled arrogance and hours of vitriol he spewed in his videos was shown to be exactly what I said – hot air. I told him I would not “be nice,” and I wasn’t. It wasn’t even a debate.
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BTFO the kurgan was.
this will be seen by a million Souls do not think this does not matter !!!!!!!!!!!!
Hail !!!!!!!
This debate was so dumb. Jay was shotgunning clear and concise points like an autist naming all the parts of his favorite train set and Kurgan simply denied all of them and called Jay a liar on each point he made.
According to Kurgan “Ludwig” Denzinger’s opinions do not matter, and even if they were solid Roman Catholic dogmas, they don’t matter because all that matters is that book he has at his home on the canon laws (and it does not matter if the canon laws are built based on Catholic dogmas), but even that does not matter because at the end Kurgan completely ignored all of the canon laws Jay brought up and accredited his misunderstandings to Jay simply being a liar.
The closing statements showed Kurgan had no understanding of the points Jay made
Denzinger is the list of Roman dogmas. He lost as soon as he didn’t know what it was.
Jay quoting the theologian Ludwig Denzinger like a champ. That was embarrassing. Bravo.
It helps to put things in perspective of the context leading up to this debate. 1. The Kurgan (unprovoked) called Jay a “gamma” and proceeded to attack his character. Jay ignored it with zero response. 2. Jay gave a presentation deconstructing Sedeveticism (sp?) for a general audience. Not targeted at anyone, much less Kurgan. 3.) The Kurgan took it upon himself to go on another unprovoked series of character assassinations against Jay with zero real examples of any of his allegations. Nonstop incessant name calling and then Jays fiance’ was dragged into his attacks by Kurgan fans. 4. During a podcast Jay’s followers kept telling him Vox called him out about the Kurgan. Jay defended Vox saying it was “probably internet drama” and dropped it. Further in the podcast they pushed Jay to look into Vox’s “public” article on Vox’s blog in which Vox declared Jay was “demolished by the Kurgan.” Jay then stopped defending Vox and sent him an email to challenge them both to a debate. Notice nothing back handed there? Man to man. Right to the source. Vox declined noting he doesn’t debate theology while at the same time defending the Kurgan on his next podcast. Jay entered the chat to defend himself and a debate was set with the Kurgan sans Vox.
I did watch the whole debate. Unfortunately just like Vox’s debate with JB this debate was obviously over the head of most of the audience too. Jay won based upon countering Kurgans false allegations with specific cited catholic dogma of which Kurgan was clearly oblivious to. Jay’s “demeanor” was a direct reflection of weeks of dealing with false allegations coming his way from Kurgan who repeatedly called him a liar while citing zero lies, a gamma, while acting like one himself, and then even daring to declare Jay doesn’t understand “Christianity.” Jay’s work speaks for itself for who has been out there for years revealing the roots of different sects of Christianity while “always” being open to debate and discussion about it. But the Kurgan never reached out to Jay now did he? Instead he went on a character attack behind Jay’s back and without seeing any of this in video form Vox declared the Kurgan “demolished” Jay(while citing a written form as the basis of his opinion). Vox also said he would retract after this debate if Kurgan was wrong. If he reads the text of the debate he won’t be able to conclude anyone the winner but Jay because Jay cited direct Catholic dogma for his sources while the Kurgan was spewing nothing but nonsensical rhetoric that only a dumbed down audience would fall for.
Jay handled himself far better than many others would after this string of non-provoked attacks coming from “the Kurgan.” Anyone who has followed this as it truly played out also understood why Jay took the gloves off. Kurgan came after him unprovoked, he spewed lies and rhetoric against Jay’s character for weeks and Jay came armed with facts to refute it all. Few would be “nice” under those circumstances, especially when their fiance’ was needlessly dragged in and basically called a ‘ho” all based upon zero facts and trash talk.
A man is not a “gamma” for defending his positions with facts, nor does he lose a debate just because he doesn’t do it in a “nice” way..what was “nice” about any of Kurgans relentless unprovoked “public” videoed attacks against Jay? Much less is Jay a “gamma” for defending the honor of his beautiful fiance’. The Kurgan’s underhanded deceitful behavior fits this proverbs to a tee in this whole mess. Proverbs 6: 12-16.
Jay didn’t start this, he ignored it and was doing his thing until it was repeatedly brought to him and then it got personal against him. Even then, he didn’t act like a “victim” he came armed with evidence to counter the lies. One can hope the unprovoked character assassination of his lifes’ work ends here because few if any would react any differently under these circumstances. If we are going to judge a man based upon his “followers” the Kurgan loses there too when they regurgitated his false allegations against Jay without any proof and then proceeded to target his fiance’. Eventually people will realize we are all individuals. If we stick to the two men involved, The Kurgan lost and his incessant repetitive upside down rhetoric couldn’t help him save face. Just repeating falsehoods doesn’t turn them into truths.
FYI This comment was not accepted on Vox’s site.
Wow. I expected a more balanced pair of debaters. This Kurgan fellow just made me cringe. Sad.
But I enjoyed the dancing man at the margin.
After a month of videos attacking me, i was absolutely aggressive.
Kurgan : “Hold on Jay! Be emotionally consistent!”
The term is “emotionally continent”.
This Kurgan fellow likes to brag about his genius level IQ supposedly being 155.
After this performance I’d guess he’s about 115-120, but even that standard deviation above the norm is wasted when one cannot honestly admit to and accept his own mistakes.
In other words, “arrogant, dishonest and stupid is no way to go through life, son”.
Kurgan is a Protestant who believes in “solum codex” and the private judgement of the believing Sede. I would imagine that it is a common position in sede circles, which is why they tend to fragment all the time.
He also wouldn’t disavow reincarnation and is a heretic.